Map: Where You Don’t Want to Be When It Hits the Fan

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Published : September 07th, 2013
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( 12 votes, 4.6/5 ) , 11 commentaries
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Category : Crisis Watch

When it hits the fan America’s population centers will explode in violence, looting, and total breakdown of law and order.

It’s a theory put forth by numerous survival and relocation specialists, and one that makes complete sense if you consider what happens in a truly serious collapse-like scenario.

Survival Blog founder James Rawles calls them the golden horde:

Because of the urbanization of the U.S. population, if the entire eastern or western power grid goes down for more than a week, the cities will rapidly become unlivable. I foresee that there will be an almost unstoppable chain of events:

Power -> water -> food distribution -> law and order -> arson fires -> full scale looting

In his recent documentary Strategic Relocation, retreat expert Joel Skousen echoes Rawles’ warnings:

The number one threat that I concentrate on. It’s not terrorism, it’s not natural disaster, it’s not even government or war.

The major threat is population density.

Because every crisis that threatens, even a local crisis, can turn exponential because of close proximity to people who cannot help themselves. Even good people panic in a crisis…

So, where should you be when it happens?

To find the answer, let’s consider where we shouldn’t be.

Recent U.S. census data indicates that out of the 3000 counties in the United States, fully 50% of the population lives in just 146.

If you want to have any chance of surviving a wide-spread catastrophic event by avoiding the hordes that will be searching for critical resources in its aftermath, then check out the following map to get a visual reference of the areas you want to stay away from.

(Click here for larger image)

24hGold - Map: Where You Don’t...

(For a complete list of the counties highlighted on this map click here)

When considering your retreat locations or emergency evacuation routes, be familiar with the population densities of the area you’re headed to, as well as those counties in your immediate vicinity.

In his book Patriots, James Rawles specifically points out that Highway 80, running through California, will be one of the busiest evacuation routes in the country as millions of people pour out of major cities to flee disaster or in search of  food.

So, no matter where you are located, consider your proximity to high traffic thoroughfares going in and out of the city. During Hurricane Rita, which hit Houston several years ago, every major pipeline out of the city was jammed for hundreds of miles. Interstate 45 from Houston to Dallas was bumper to bumper traffic. Normally a 4 hour trip, those who didn’t evacuate in time were stuck on the highway without food, gas, sanitation, or potable water for upwards of 15 hours.

This is why Joel Skousen suggests that those looking for strategic retreat locations or homes outside of major cities consider highway proximity. Be at least 5 – 7 miles away from any major thoroughfare, which is generally outside the range people want to venture off familiar roads, and far enough away to make any ‘walkers’ too tired to attempt the trip without ample clean water and food.

If you have no choice but to be in a major metro area during a serious emergency situation, consider strategies that can help you remain sustainable in the city even in the midst of panic.

Hat tip Satori

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When the Shit hits the fan you are best not to be near the outer perimeter of the fan.

BTW another load of nonsense from the Slavo.
Rate :   2  5Rating :   -3
Few people have the resources to relocate to a less populated area, let alone having some remote retreat well stocked. The worry of that place being ransacked before anything happens or even being able to defend it would be troublesome. There are those on the internet that advocate the alternative: being prepared to seize the assets of those who have prepared -- the predator mentality.

I like the link that was supplied by Salvo, SUSTAINABLE IN THE CITY. It has many good ideas. However that option would only apply to some short term scenario.

Rate :   11  -3Rating :   14
My point was to get out of the US altogether. Of course not everyone will have the resources to do so but many do, they’re ignorant that the situation in their country is rapidly degenerating so will not do anything about their future situation. To some, even though they know the situation is bad they want to ignore the signs, the concept of an event that will alter the way they enjoy life is too much to take in.

You point out what many advocates of prepping suggest, finding a remote location in the country somewhere and stocking it with supplies to last a minimum of a year. You’re correct that there is a chance someone could locate this retreat therefore many writers go into detail about finding the choicest location for such a bug out location, as far off the roads as possible typically and so forth, and using caches. Let’s face it, anyplace outside of the metropolitan areas where you can hole up will be better than attempting to survive the mayhem that will descend upon the cities. As overtheedge has pointed out, there will be a skill set required that not many in today’s society still possess, those that do tend to be the survival minded individuals and of course the workers which provide the food city dwellers pick up at grocery stores, the farmers. Skills such as software developers (I don’t want to pick on just one but use this as an example) won’t be needed for some time but construction workers, engineers, and the like will be in demand.

That said, looking back at what I posted about Fusion centers and socialist government control still holds. Let history be the teacher here and I say the following with respect for the Jewish people that had to suffer. In Nazi Germany the Jews were hunted and shipped off to camps with barbed wire fencing (not much different than the Fusion centers), anyone giving aid to them suffered the same fate. They clamped down on the civilian population and everyone was suspect of being a resistance collaborator. Is it that far of a stretch to suggest that when the crash hits the US government will want to control the civilian population in much the same way the Nazi’s did? I’m not suggesting that people will be executed but they want to control you and everyone else. How is it that there were so many Jewish survivors? Many got out of Germany or into the deep country side before the Nazi’s started rounding them up. Their chance of survival in populated areas was extremely poor and wholly reliant upon others helping them. Look at Hitler’s paranoia and how he suspected virtually everyone of treason. With all the intrusion into the personal lives of US citizens by the NSA, and every other department of the DHS, is there really any difference between the US government paranoia and that of Hitler’s? Pick any historical ruler, they would all have been salivating at the thought of having the type of access to your personal communications and your affiliations that the current administration now possess.

Personally I decided that since I had the means to get out of the rat race and what I see as the inevitable crash and burn, I would do so. There are many countries left on the planet that will suffer far less when the crash hits. overtheedge points out that it would be wise to have something to bribe bureaucrats with if you move to these countries. He is correct, in many countries palms need to be greased to get anything accomplished. On a greater scale this happens every day in the US, don’t believe it then please explain the huge funding lobbyists have available and the almost continuous exposure of elected officials caught being paid under the table to hasten the process of approvals. There are many reasons the countries will suffer less, in most cases it's because they are less reliant on technology which may be offline for some time before systems can be restored. It's unfortunate that we look upon nations which aren't hardwired like the US, Europe, and Canada for instance and think of them as being backwards. Even within Europe there are nations that still rely more on physical labour as part of the everyday routine, think of the nations around the Mediterranean. North Americans and the northern Euro group countries are filled with people eating and drinking to excess and then paying money to workout in gyms. What a waste.

Back to the point though. If you can, do some research to locate what looks like the best alternative country for you, move yourself and family to a country where there will be less suffering when the crash hits. Caribbean countries along with many in south America are a good choice, Singapore, Mauritius is another great little country. I know there will be many divergent opinions on this, many opinions I’ve encountered when discussing this are based on what the media pumps into peoples brains rather than personal experience. Think of this for a moment, how many of the world’s wealthiest families will still be residing in the US or Europe when things go really bad. There’s a reason virtually all of them has purchased land in some country that most north Americans would consider as backwards. There’s a reason so many of them reside in these other countries for the majority of the time and only go back ‘home’ to visit, when it happens you want to be where you will be as safe as possible.

Jim C, my suggestion to anybody would be to at the least take the advice of those that promote having an alternative location outside of the area where those in need will be ranging to ride out the storm. overtheedge stated “I don't even trust my own opinions. Ergo, I upgrade and/or discard them as new data becomes available and gets analyzed.” I would suggest that not considering what I proffer is in effect negating the intake of new data before it even has a chance of being analyzed.
Rate :   8  1Rating :   7
"I would suggest that not considering what I proffer is in effect negating the intake of new data before it even has a chance of being analyzed."

Still didn't get that assumpter re-calibrated,eh?

I started down this path way back during the first Arab Oil Embargo. Relocation was high on my list. Logical reasoning, first hand evidence and time kicked it off the list.

Now here is something for everyone to ponder. In this debate, assumptions were made that are patently false. That same assumpter was used to decide upon a plan that included becoming an ex-pat. The country selection was made using that same assumpter. Could that same assumpter have overlooked one obvious problem? Occam's Razor basically states, "All things being equal, the simplest answer is usually correct."

So what the hell am I talking about?
As long as a foreigner has money and the money is good, you're welcome to stay. "Another bottle of wine, sir?"

But I'm also reminded of the "Goose that laid the Golden Eggs." In times that try the soul of man, there have been and will be again, occasions where impatience got the upper hand. How easily we forget that man is born to be a competitor for resources. The "civilized man" concept is just a thin veneer held on with school paste glue.

My travels over the decades taught me to always bet on human nature. Homo sapiens is an animal. An emotional response is just man's animal nature leaking out. Think about it; fight, flight or fright. I like from Frank Herbert's, "Dune", "Fear is the mind killer."

And get that assumpter calibrated.
Rate :   3  7Rating :   -4
Given the Obama administrations love for increased build-up of armaments in its paramilitary police forces the best place to not be when SHTF is anywhere in the US. With police forces arming up on drones and the US military working up plans to quell civil uprisings (the Army has surveyed its members and one of the straight forward questions asked was "Would you be able and willing to fire on US citizens if you are required to?") so it won’t matter where you are, city or country, the Obama gestapo will find and collect you. Small arms won't help, even the much better armed militias won’t be able to put up resistance for long against the fire power these new paramilitary police forces have.

If you truly want to avoid experiencing life in a Fusion center and be taken care of by your government get out of the US while you can. There are several better choices for living and raising a family, countries that may seem to be backwards to most but provide a far better lifestyle than you'll enjoy as guests at a Fusion ranch.
Rate :   7  3Rating :   4
"... get out of the US while you can ..."
Say what? Let's see, the world's financial wizard (USA) directly or indirectly causes every country on the planet to experience worse times than they already are experiencing and you suggest I go there? If you have bothered to looked around, Americans are blamed for almost all the mischief on the planet and already several groups are kidnapping and/or executing these hostages. And you suggest I should join these fool ex-pats?

First of all, the government will cut or eliminate transfer payments, but will deliver supplies to your Fusion(?) centers. The sheep will move on their own to these centers. Why would anyone expend monies, resources and manpower tracking down some fools in the field? The fools will either make it on their own and thereby cost the government nothing, die off out of stupidity or come dragging their sorry carcass in to the Fusion center in hopes of a meal.

You also tend to forget that the supposed guards have families and will be loyal to them before being loyal to a bureaucracy. Food will only be delivered to the centers and that will be by military. Guess where the guard's families will be?

But you are entitled to you opinion about moving overseas. Why are you still hanging around? Pretty soon, it will be too late.

Don't act like a soldier and pick home court advantage. No, be adventurous and go where you don't know anyone and have a language/customs barrier to deal with. After all, a loner has the option of mobility. Perhaps you should select a destination where firearms ownership is strictly controlled by the government. Maybe carry a stash of gold and silver to bribe a few bureaucrats along the way would be a good idea too.

Yes, being a stranger in a strange land is gonna be an adventure. Your wisdom in making that choice will pay handsome dividends.
"Small arms won't help, even the much better armed militias won’t be able to put up resistance for long against the fire power these new paramilitary police forces have."
You should tell the Taliban, FARC, Shining Path, IRA, Tutsi, Al-Qaeda and other groups that. It would have made a lot of difference had they known that fighting government forces would have resulted in their utter and complete elimination at minimal cost to government forces. What a difference that would have made in Rhodesia.
Avoid population centers and major transportation corridors.

You will still face one major problem. You are a stranger and stranger equates to potential enemy. Nobody is going to make it without a support system and long-term survival mandates the rapid re-establishment of commerce.

Trade goods alone is NOT enough. Skills of all sorts will be exploited at the Fusion centers and in rural America.
If you are a one-trick pony skill-wise, you better be the absolute best and that trick is the one that is always in high demand. Otherwise being a jack-of-all-trades is the best choice.
Rate :   5  7Rating :   -2
You’ve made some assumptions in your comment that need clearing up.

Not all countries have come under economic attack by the US. You are correct in in stating that the US has interfered in many countries, and continues the practice, but not all have been bought. I am curious though, you state the US has been blamed for almost all mischief on the planet, are you agreeing with this or disagreeing? The people being kidnapped and executed, let’s be specific on where this is happening as your exaggerating and making it sound like this happens everywhere Americans venture which is a false statement. I have no knowledge of your past travels just as you have no idea where I have traveled or lived. I have met expats from many countries living overseas and can confidently say that most are valued in the communities they now live in. It’s all a matter of attitude, those who hold themselves as superior have a rough ride, this is the nicest way to describe the majority of US citizens in these countries. Those that chose to believe they are no better than the people surrounding them enjoy, in most cases, a comfortable life style with many friends.

The people running to Fusion centers will be the ones who have lived under a rock watching reruns of X Factor and have believed their current lifestyle would go on uninterrupted. Those who chose to live in relative isolation will be hunted. The government can’t have people in the fringes where they exert no control. If you doubt this then look no further than the current move to limit or completely remove long guns and side arms from the population. The FDA has at various times and locations raided farmers markets as the produce being sold hasn’t been blessed by them. They want everyone to believe that you can’t grow safe food yourself. Socialist governments want you to depend on them, end of.

You missed commenting on how the war between the militias, gangs, and mob armies will affect the general population that doesn’t run to the Fusion centers. For a while this will be tolerated by the government as it will be to their advantage, having civilians coming to them for protection, but in the process many will be killed.

Are you assuming that I currently live in the US?

I do get the impression however that you haven’t traveled extensively. When you look around, how many different ethnicities can you recognize? Go to most other countries and you’ll discover that in the last 40 years many have immigrated to just about every country on the planet. You are correct in stating that it would be wise to have something to bribe bureaucrats, how does this differ now or in the event of a major disruption in the US? Again when you state that going to a strange land is going to be an adventure makes it apparent that you haven’t traveled much. Often the advantage goes to the individual that isn’t known by the authorities, what’s you're dossier at the FBI look like? Could they use the data they have collected on you to know which coffee shop you‘ll visit tomorrow? I can guarantee you that if you went to x country first of all you wouldn’t be of much interest if you kept a low profile and the government has no info on you.

Mentioning the various terrorist organizations as an example of how the US military can be pushed back is silly. How many US citizens will there be that can get organized and form a viable offense in the event that the government starts to round people up? Consider that the US has armed a large number of the enemy in efforts to destabilize a government that they want toppled. Those that didn’t get arms from the CIA (or whatever alphabet soup club) were armed by Russia or China, not to mention various other countries that had an interest in destabilizing X (pick a country). What are the chances that militias within the US could be armed and resupplied by these other countries after total control is exercised by the government? Drones would be burning up millions of gallons of fuel making sure that nothing comes into the US.

Avoiding areas that are patrolled would be wise just as it has been in any war or conflict.

Your point on having skills beyond knowing how to install or trouble shoot a program, using video texting, or which store in the mall carries the best designer clothes will of course be valuable, is of course valid. They are now! I don’t know if you’ve had to go for a job interview recently but I’ve hired people, even within the last month. I don’t want people that aren’t capable of stepping into new roles in a pinch, unless of course it makes sense because you need an individual with a specialized skill but people with various talents are always in demand. Would you hire an individual with just one skill?
Rate :   7  2Rating :   5
"I do get the impression ... "
Your impressionator and assumpter need recalibration.

Tis a common problem when you add too many bias plies to a belief system. Believe what you will.

Myself? I go with human nature and in every conflict, human nature always outs itself. It took me several decades to recognize this truism and discard the detritus imposed on me by parents, K-12 educational system, college, academics/experts, political parties and unions.

And when human nature outs, survival of the fittest rules the range.
Survival of the fittest is where biases are always in error. Fittest equates to most adaptable to a rapidly changing environment. This MANDATES paranoia. Slavery and imprisonment are classic cases of a trust environment. Avoidance coupled with observation is fairly conclusive evidence of potential survivability.

But like I said, you really need to get your impressionator recalibrated. In a rapidly changing environment, trust is a luxury that will result in far less than optimal outcomes. When you start believing your analysis, you don't hang an albatross around your neck, but rather a large anchor. Those beliefs will prevent you from making timely decisions. "More battles have been lost by failure to make a timely decision than by making a wrong decision."

I don't even trust my own opinions. Ergo, I upgrade and/or discard them as new data becomes available and gets analyzed. Trust no one. Not even self. Never stop learning. Beliefs are proof you stopped.
Rate :   4  8Rating :   -4
"survival of the fittest rules"
Mind or body ?
Both of course !!!
Rate :   1  0Rating :   1
"Small arms won't help, even the much better armed militias won’t be able to put up resistance for long against the fire power these new paramilitary police forces have. "

Maybe you should tell that to the Afgani's. They don't know that they are out gunned but they still manage to kill our troops every chance they get. So if you tell them then they will lay down their arms and start dancing for their new freedoms.

Over 300 million firearms in civilian hands, and they want to take them away for the children?
Each state has its own laws concerning firearms the states with the most restrictive rights will be where most of the citizens blood will be spilled.The states with less restrictive laws will be less controlled.
Molon Labe

Your scenario or mine or something in between? We won't know until it happens unless of course you can foresee the future? If you can your wasting your time here.
Rate :   3  5Rating :   -2
I'll take a stab at it and say that he was specific about how gun owners in the US would be scattered rather than organized. If you look at virtually every terrorist organization you'll see that even the worst of the worst still have some sort of structure. Of the 300 million or so guns that reside in US homes, how many gun owners does that actually translate to? Lets use a number I just made up, 100 million. Of those 100 million how many of them have any kind of military training? How many have taken any kind of gun training for that matter. Lets say that if even one quarter of them got themselves some how organized (good luck) how effective would a band of 5 to 20 individuals, here and there with no real affiliations or structure outside of the small groups, who may not even know each other never mind know how the guy standing next them thinks or reacts, especially in a gun fight?

What you would end up with is a mass of poorly trained, poorly armed, not sure what to do next guys hoping they can push back a trained military force. This is the difference between terrorist organizations and not so wannabee militias, training. Training, supply, and intelligence gathering, the difference between an effective resistance and truck loads of body bags.

I hope I didn't put words in your mouth Fugacious and that I did a decent job of summarizing your statements. By the way, welcome to the 24hgold forums.
Rate :   6  4Rating :   2
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When the Shit hits the fan you are best not to be near the outer perimeter of the fan. BTW another load of nonsense from the Slavo. Read more
S W. - 9/9/2013 at 10:59 AM GMT
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