VANCOUVER Jan 6, 2016 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Capstone Mining Corp earnings conference call or presentation Wednesday, October 28, 2015 at 3:30:00pm GMT TEXT version of Transcript ================================================================================ Corporate Participants ================================================================================ * Cindy Burnett Capstone Mining Corp. - VP IR & Communications * Darren Pylot Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO * Jim Slattery Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO * Gregg Bush Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO ================================================================================ Conference Call Participants ================================================================================ * Mark Turner Scotiabank - Analyst * Alex Terentiew Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst * Sasha Bukacheva BMO Capital Markets - Analyst * Stefan Ioannou Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst * Gary Lampard Canaccord Genuity - Analyst ================================================================================ Presentation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Capstone Mining third-quarter 2015 financial results conference call. (Operator Instructions). I would now like to turn the conference over to your host, Cindy Burnett, Investor Relations. Please go ahead. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cindy Burnett, Capstone Mining Corp. - VP IR & Communications [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you. I would like to welcome everyone on the call today. The news release announcing Capstone's 2015 third-quarter financial results is available on our website, along with an updated corporate presentation with summary information on the Company and our financial and operating results. Also on the website are webcast slides to accompany our commentary today. With me today are Darren Pylot, Capstone's President and CEO; Jim Slattery, Senior Vice President and Chief Financial Officer; Gregg Bush, Capstone's Senior Vice President and Chief Operating Officer; and Rob Blusson, Vice President of Finance. I would like to advise you that this call is being recorded for replay through our conference call provider and is being broadcast live through an Internet webcast system. Comments made on the call today will contain forward-looking information. This information, by its nature, is subject to risks and uncertainties and actual results may differ materially from the views expressed today. For further information on these risks and uncertainties, please see Capstone's relevant filings on SEDAR. And finally, I will just note that all amounts we will discuss today will be in US dollars unless otherwise specified. Now I will turn the call over to Darren Pylot. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Cindy, and good morning, everybody. Jim will lead off with a review of our financial performance, followed by Gregg, who will provide an update on our operations. We will also provide an update on our development projects and corporate activities, followed by your questions. I will now turn the call over to Jim. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [4] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Darren. We recorded a net loss for the third quarter of $216 million, which included a loss from mining operations of $23.8 million, non-cash impairment charges of $199.2 million, and restructuring costs of $2 million, all directly or indirectly a result of weaker metal prices. The collars that we put in place to protect our capital program generated a gain of $11.1 million for the quarter, of which $5.7 million was realized. Operating cash flow before changes in working capital was $9.2 million for the quarter and $47.6 million year to date. With copper prices deteriorating during the quarter, we took a number of additional steps in early September to preserve our financial flexibility and to ensure that we remained within our debt covenants. We reduced the 2015 capital expenditures by about $20 million and reduced mine site operating costs by $20 million as well over the second half of the year. We also took the decision to suspend development work on our Santo Domingo project in Chile, downsizing our offices in Santiago and Diego de Almagro. These activities, when combined with the no-cost collars and price fixing that we implemented earlier this year, will help ensure that we can maintain the value of our current operations and remain in compliance with all our covenants through 2015 at most conceivable prices for copper. Now in response to questions and requests from a number of analysts and investors, we have done some calculations to answer the question, how low does copper have to go before you run into covenant issues? Now we have been reluctant to give a single definitive copper price because of the number of assumptions that are required and the volatility of the current market. But having said that, we have used our corporate model and our cash cost and production as guided and can state that if the copper price averaged $2 per pound in the fourth quarter, we would just hit our 3 times covenant at the end of Q4 2015. Now note that it has been about $2.35 for the month of October, so for November and December, we would have to average something in the range of around $2.18 a pound to run into any kind of covenant issue. In 2016, using the same approach, we expect to remain in compliance with all of our covenants were copper to stay at current levels during the last quarter of 2015 and average only $2.20 per pound for the first half of 2016. In the second half of next year, we would remain in compliance down to an average price for copper per pound of $1.85 as we will be receiving a significant lift from the high-grade Minto North production. Now please note that these are directional indications only and are subject to all kinds of assumptions and disclaimers, but they should, I think, provide some assurance as to our financial position. Now in the event that the market gets worse and stays there for longer, we have outlined in the MD&A a number of other steps that we can take if required to get through the trough. Now we don't expect to have to take any of these steps, but are making sure that we are well prepared if market conditions warrant them. If required, we expect that we will have several quarters of visibility to put them in place before they become necessary. And at this time, we are confident this provides us with more than enough room to manage ourselves through this phase of the cycle. Now one point that I would like to make is that there is a difference in the disclosure relative to our debt covenants between the financial statements and the MD&A. The MD&A contains reference to a tangible net worth covenant for purposes of the testing of our revolving credit facility. That covenant, that is an error and that will be corrected. When we renegotiated our revolving credit facility at the beginning of this year, we eliminated the tangible net worth requirement, so the disclosure that is in our financial statements is in fact the accurate disclosure. There is no tangible net worth covenant for Capstone. So given the expected operating cost reduction for the second half of the year that Darren alluded to, we have lowered our 2015 C1 consolidated cost guidance to a range of $1.95 to $2.05 per pound of copper produced. Costs in the third quarter were $1.98 per pound and $2.05 year to date. So with Cozamin production back on track, the higher scheduled Q4 grade at Pinto Valley, and throughput at Pinto Valley moving up, we are comfortable with this new full-year range. Now I will turn the call over to Gregg for our operational update. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [5] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Jim. Production for the quarter met our expectations and we made excellent progress at Pinto Valley, where we believe we have fully turned the corner. In September, we set a monthly throughput record of 52,400 tonnes per day, and so far in October our mill throughput is averaging 55,000 tonnes per day. We had some challenges in August, but we identified and corrected the root causes, some lingering issues that were plaguing us in the primary pressure in the [core shore] conveying system. While we did not have the crushed inventory to take us through back-to-back outages that occurred early in -- that we experienced early in August, the quarter saw significant advances in both maintenance planning and planned compliance. Also, a number of chronic problems in the fine crushing plant were addressed during July and August as well that have enabled us to both build stockpile inventory to sustain the mill throughput during planned maintenance days in the crushing plant, as well as to recover inventory from unplanned outages, which are occurring much less frequently. These improvements and modifications were all completed as operating expenditures during the quarter and are reflected in elevated cash costs at Pinto Valley for the quarter compared with our expectations going forward. The asset reliability program is progressing as planned and we are now pushing these initiatives into lower priorities -- lower priority areas of the plant to target optimization opportunities and better process control and flotation performance. In addition, the improvements realized in the maintenance reliability have been accompanied by improvements in the operations team understanding of the plant's capabilities. The successes achieved thus far in improved reliability and efficiencies have led us to the conclusion that our initial expectations of sustaining 52,000 tonnes per day were conservative. This has been part of what has contributed to our plan to reassess the best path forward with PV3 expansion opportunity. At Cozamin, we are also back on track catching up from the development shortfall we were experiencing earlier this year and making good progress with grade control. At quarter-end, we had approximately two months of long-hole stow forward developed and ready for drilling. Our target is to reach and maintain 10 to 12 weeks of developed inventory in multiple areas to allow for higher flexibility and continuity of mill feed and higher grade, but less predictable footwall zone. At Minto, we outperformed our plan for the third consecutive quarter as a result of significantly outperforming on planned throughput and better-than-expected grade from underground ore. And finally, with receipt of the water use license in August, we immediately began stripping the Minto North pit and are well on track to have ore to the mill starting in December. High grades start to hit in the second quarter of next year, with grades significantly ramping up in the second half of 2016. In the meantime, the mill will continue to process stockpiled and underground ore, which will carry us through the transition, with grades averaging slightly above 1% in the fourth quarter and steadily ramping up through Q1 and Q2 of 2016 and averaging over 2.5% for the second half. I will now turn the call back over to Darren. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [6] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, Gregg. Our focus this quarter was to look critically across the Company and take the necessary steps to get through this period of low copper prices. We made cuts and deferred spending in a way that doesn't impact our existing operations and preserves the value and optionality of our development project for when market conditions improve. Along with the actions we have taken thus far to ensure compliance with our debt covenants, we have significant additional levers that we can pull, should they be required. As mentioned in our MD&A, we have had preliminary discussions with our lending syndicate to obtain temporary covenant relief, should that need arise. Secondly, we are exploring the option of arranging a prepayment financing on offtake commitments for copper. At any given time, we have in the range of $50 million worth of concentrate inventory moving throughout our system. That can be borrowed against, allowing us to move a portion of our debt from senior secured to unsecured, where we have considerably more covenant room. And finally, while we don't want to take this step, we could if necessary extend the silver stream at Cozamin beyond its current expiry date of April 2017, which would generate an upfront cash payment in the range of $60 million to $80 million, based on the current spot silver price. We would much rather not, because in 2017 when the stream expires we would receive the benefit of the full spot price for silver relative to the $4 -- roughly $4 that we get currently. However, even with the stream on, Cozamin remains a very low cost mine on both C1 and on a total cost basis. I also want to be clear on the copper price as it relates to our covenant. When we talk about copper having an average $2.20 per pound for the first half of 2016, for example, I want to reiterate that this refers to an average copper price over the entire period. The price can fall below $2.20 on any given day or period, as long as the average for the quarter is at least $2.20. This quarter, we also made some decisions around the best way to proceed with Pinto Valley's PV3 expansion. The PV3 PFS was originally targeted for completion in Q3. However, as we advance the engineering work and obtain further production data, we believe the mill can run in excess of 52,000 tonnes per day for little or relatively low capital. We have determined that it makes the most sense to continue to optimize the operation and determine the maximum throughput that can be achieved prior to committing any capital. As a result, we have postponed the completion and release of the study until Q1 of next year, while we determine the baseline mill throughput in order to evaluate the best use of capital. Regardless of the ultimate PV3 configuration, a significant mine life extension is anticipated and permitting work for an updated tailings facility has commenced. In closing, I would like to say that we had a challenging start to the year with Cozamin behind on development and Pinto Valley struggling to achieve planned throughput rates. But with improvements made both throughout 2015, both at Cozamin and Pinto Valley, combined with the strong yearly performance to date at Minto, we are set up well to achieve an operationally strong Q4. For the balance of the year, our operating focus will be on sustaining the improvements in mill throughput at Pinto Valley and determining the operation's full potential there, stripping the high-grade Minto North on time and on budget, and continuing with improvements at Cozamin. We remain focused on the careful management of our financial resources as our number one priority is to sustain our operations through this downturn, while still allowing us to advance high-priority items in our 2015 capital program in order to position the Company for the future. We have managed our revenue well through our copper collars, taken actions to preserve our financial flexibility, have a contingency plan in place should copper prices fall further, and remain confident about the ability of the Company to withstand the current market. Operator, that concludes our prepared remarks and we are now ready to take questions. ================================================================================ Questions and Answers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Operator Instructions). Mark Turner, Scotiabank. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good morning and thanks for taking the questions. Maybe, Jim, I will just start with some of, I guess, the balance sheet and covenant questions. Thanks for the disclosure, I guess, or update on the tangible net worth in the MD&A and then also the copper price work. One thing that I guess surprised me a little bit was that you had drawn $25 million from the revolver in the quarter, even though if you hadn't have drawn that, your cash balance still would have been above the $85 million or around $80 million and net debt the same. Just wondering if there is anything I should be reading through on to why that was actually drawn down in the quarter? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, there is nothing specific that -- to be read through that. If we -- as you said, as you pointed out, we have got -- it added to our cash balance, so from an actual net debt perspective, which is what is relevant for the covenants, it is as though we didn't draw it all. And we do -- and the amount of cash that we keep in the system is just mostly to ensure the efficient management of our treasury function. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [4] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so nothing to read through, I guess, in terms of -- okay, potential liquidity or changes to the revolver. A second question, then, in terms of the EBITDA calculation. Is there anything that is maybe significantly different in how it is calculated for the covenants, then, than maybe financial analysts would be estimating EBITDA? And just thinking, is there -- like the write-down in the quarter or X'd or excluded out of that, is there anything that we should be considering that might not be traditional in that the banks are trying to look for to get back to maybe the EBITDA as a cash flow metric? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [5] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, it is a pretty standard calculation for -- as amongst most debt agreements. It is on SEDAR, incidentally, and the definition is there. It is on page 16, if you're interested, but it is very straightforward. There is nothing unusual in it at all. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [6] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, no, my recollection was there wasn't anything different there; just, I guess, I'd heard some sort of concerns this morning on that. Last question on the balance sheet and then the cash management, is there any view on -- you have outlined potential longer-term or medium-term solutions if you require additional liquidity, but what about additional short-term hedging in terms of copper puts? And I guess I am thinking more of for the first half of next year, yes, there is $2.20 copper, but I guess that also assumes that everything goes smoothly with the ramp-up and the stripping at the Minto North pit. Just if something had -- or maybe slightly delayed there for whatever reason, you experience fresh nets before and that type of thing. What is the thought process around that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [7] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We definitely would consider that. We are looking -- we are watching the market very carefully, and to the extent that there was -- similar to in May of this year, the copper jumped up to $2.80 and we pounced and protected it, the value of $2.60, which was interesting for us. To the extent, I think, that copper were to spike up again and we were -- and the possibility of hedging or putting in no-cost collars as an attractive protection price, we would definitely consider that. It is not something that we would want to do on a longer-term strategic basis, but to get through this period, we would definitely consider it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [8] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, perfect. And just maybe switching gears and just one last set of questions here. For Gregg, the Pinto Valley throughput, obviously a strong end to Q3 and then so far in October has been really strong as well, too. You were mentioning the fine crushing circuit and being able to build stockpile ahead of downtime there, planned or unplanned. Has that been the main bottleneck or, I guess, contributor to the underperformance in the first three quarters of the year? And I guess I'm just trying to look for more comfort that you feel like you now know where, for lack of a better word, where some of the gremlins lay, so you know that -- what you're dealing with in terms of trying to improve stability, where as opposed to -- I think at the beginning of the year, it was just unclear where or what to expect next from the operations. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [9] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Mark, I wouldn't say that was the primary reason for the poor performance in the first quarters of the year. But certainly it was -- there was a negative synergy there between the maintenance issue, so we had poor reliability, and then on top of that when it was running, it was running oftentimes not at full capacity because of one problem there, so we were unable to build up the inventory that we need in the system in order to do planned maintenance without interrupting our mill throughput. And then, that would just -- it was built on because we had so many unplanned outages, so that is why I think we are very confident on where this is going to go going forward. It -- because they are able to -- we are able to follow the maintenance program very, very tightly, and the capacity we have got now with the circuit, we can -- we go into every planned outage with very high stockpiles so we don't feel the impact in the grinding circuit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [10] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so it seems like the more recent gains have been not just availability and online time, but then also being able to increase the capacity while, let's say, the fine crushing or other parts of the circuit are actually running, you have been able to squeeze additional tonnes per hour as opposed to average tonnes per day (multiple speakers) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [11] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, certainly, and the crushing plant is making much better product than it was, as well. There were some -- there were some issues there where it was running and we were running at more or less the designed tonnage, but it wasn't producing an ideal feed for our grinding circuit. So, there is a whole lot of things that came together all at the same time, so that's why we have seen such a dramatic increase in a short time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [12] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great, thanks for the color. And yes, keep up the good operational work there. Thanks, guys. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [13] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [14] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My first question is just a follow-up to one of Mark's early ones on the RCF drawing down in the quarter. Can I read through to this that maybe $100 million cash is the -- your comfort level? That is the amount of cash you would like to have on the balance sheet? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [15] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a reasonable assumption, yes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [16] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Okay, second question. This one is more for Gregg, I guess. You noted the elevated cash costs or on-site costs at Pinto Valley during the quarter due to some maintenance and repairs and some of the earlier work that happened, causing the costs to go up. What do you expect costs, if you can give them to me on a per-tonne basis, just to go down to going forward? I think at the end of last year there was an $11 per tonne target. I'm just wondering if that's still the right number. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [17] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, I believe slightly under that. I don't know; I tend to think in unit costs per pound. But we are targeting -- for Pinto Valley, we are targeting a number well below $2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [18] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so (multiple speakers) -- all right, so that's with all the treatment, refining, and byproducts, okay. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [19] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, yes (multiple speakers) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [20] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, that's good. Next question, at Kutcho I saw that you removed that from the list of assets for sale. I don't know if you can give us a little bit of color on this, but if you could, I would appreciate it. I just was wondering if there is -- was there a lack of interest in the asset or were the offers that you may have been getting just at an insufficient price that you decided to keep it on hold -- keep it on hand, rather? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [21] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Alex, it is Darren. Yes, there was some interest prior to the tailings failure in BC earlier in the year, and then, obviously, the commodity market declined significantly over the summer. So we decided to take it off -- out of the process and not have it up for sale until the environment improves, so that was the reason behind it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [22] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. And just one last question, if I may. This is on your write-down at Santo Domingo. Is your valuation for that asset still based on the original plan or were you looking at the revised smaller plan? Because I'm just wondering with the write-down, it's still got a carrying book value of, I believe, around $429 million, so I'm just trying to gauge what the prospects of additional write-downs on that asset in 2016 are? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [23] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The impairment calculation was based on the [DFS], so on that published statement. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [24] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And I think you were using a $71 or so per tonne iron ore. And I would guess your iron ore price forecast is the main driver behind any sort of valuation write-down on that asset then, correct? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [25] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, copper obviously has an impact as well, but yes (multiple speakers). We use consensus prices and consensus assumptions. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alex Terentiew, Raymond James Financial Services, Inc. - Analyst [26] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, okay. All right, fair enough. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [27] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [28] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim, if I start with you, if I may, so is that correct to assume that after you negotiated tangible net worth covenant relief, there are no other balance-sheet covenants right now? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [29] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just to be clear, we didn't -- there is no relief, per se. It was -- when we moved from the second amended restated revolving credit facility to the third amended restated credit facility in January of this year, we -- the negotiations with the banks, we eliminated the tangible net worth, so there is no negotiated relief in view of any current conditions. It was just not in our agreement, and so there are no balance-sheet tests, other than, as we said earlier, there is the interest coverage and the two leverage tests and that's it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [30] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, excellent. That helps in terms of further impairments. The other question I had just to understand a little bit how you recognize the benefit of hedging, because from what I understand, it doesn't get included in your EBITDA line, because I saw your reporting and realized gains below, and then you credited, I guess, the $3.7 million in actual cash proceeds in the financing cash flow. So I just wanted to understand if that is what we should be expecting going forward, and also if there might be an adjustment for EBITDA calculation for the purposes of covenant tests? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [31] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To the best of my knowledge, the calculation does not take into account derivative gains or losses. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [32] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I see, so EBITDA is as calculated, assuming copper price that approximates spot? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [33] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [34] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Thank you very much. And then, I had a question for Gregg. I read in your disclosure on Pinto Valley that you're looking to commence permitting for the tailings facility for a mine life extension. So, I was just wondering where is the -- have you already picked a location for the new tailings dam? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [35] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it is -- we looked at a number of different locations. We've settled on the best option as an expansion of the current TSF4 or the main tailings dam that is in use right now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [36] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, and so how much volume do you think realistically you could accommodate there in terms of annual production? How many years of production could you deposit there? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [37] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think -- I want to say it could take maybe another 250 million tonnes after the end of PV2. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [38] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And then, the other question I had, since you did a lot of stripping because I guess you were planning on potentially getting ready for PV3, would that mean that we could see a lot less waste movement next year and therefore your operating costs could be below $11? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [39] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An eventual PV3, the stripping for PV3 would really start to -- assuming we went forward with it -- would start to pick up in 2019, 2020, but you always try to smooth your fleet requirements out, so some of it may -- could be pulled forward. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [40] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess what I'm trying to get at, you haven't really done any of the incremental work this year that might give you incremental benefit next year, compared to the technical report that has been released. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [41] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, I mean, right now we are essentially following our PV2 mine plan as it was published. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sasha Bukacheva, BMO Capital Markets - Analyst [42] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, okay, thank you. That's all for me. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [43] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [44] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most of my questions have been answered, but just, maybe, just curious, just looking at Santo Domingo, you are still -- your share of capital costs this year for Q4 are still $4.9 million. Just wondering what is that being spent on versus a steady-state run rate of $2 million a year thereafter? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [45] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was more around just downsizing the office and restructuring and severance payments and just all around downsizing to be able to have that holding cost average that $2 million a year next year. So (multiple speakers) one time. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [46] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so you had the cost obviously in Q3, but you'd expect more of those sort of costs in Q4, then, is what you are saying? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [47] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, they have all been expensed in Q3. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [48] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, I was just wondering because your guidance in the MD&A says there is another $4.9 million to come in Q4, if I read that correct (multiple speakers) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [49] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sorry, okay, yes. The cause of that are studies that we had underway that we absolutely need to finalize before -- metallurgical studies. We have got (multiple speakers) plant studies going on, so things that just need to be wrapped up before we get into that holding period, so it is that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [50] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure, sure. Okay, fair enough. That makes sense. Maybe just one going back to Pinto Valley, just obviously talking about how things have improved a lot, which is great to see. I know one of the issues early on was, too, just a lot of restructuring of the labor early in the year, getting more skilled people on site. How is that going? And then, also, how are things going with the unions in general? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [51] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, you know, we completed the restructuring at the end of Q1. We haven't had any issues related to that. We are gradually building a stronger team there. We got some very good new people in. I would say that we are still struggling, I think, a bit on some of the skilled crafts. We have been since the beginning and that I would expect to continue for a while, but we are managing around it. We are tweaking our internal training programs in the way we are structuring some of our support contractors, so that there is a training component to what they do. So I think we have a plan to work through it. And as far as the relationship with the union, or I should say the employees, both, I guess, is good. We are not in a tense relationship with either the workforce or the Steelworkers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [52] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. How are things going? Is one of the contracts or multiple contracts still up for negotiation right now? It seemed like it was a process that was way past a deadline, but that was the norm anyways? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [53] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, yes. Our contract is expired and we are in a process. There are six constituent unions there, but it is all -- they are all consolidated under one bargaining unit. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stefan Ioannou, Haywood Securities Inc. - Analyst [54] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, okay, great. Thanks very much, guys. I appreciate it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [55] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Operator Instructions). Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity - Analyst [56] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My first question, it refers to the $1.85 copper price that you gave for covenant comfort for H2 next year. You didn't quite say this, but by extension of what you did say, is it fair to assume that that relies on current spot prices between now and June 30? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [57] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, what I said was that if you had current spot prices approximately through to the end of this year, and then you ran $2.20 to the end of June, you could do -- you would stay under the $3. Then it could drop to as low as $1.85 for the second half of the year and you would be under $3. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity - Analyst [58] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, got it. Thanks for the clarification. That's clear. Second question, it is that issue of whether or not the hedging gains or losses impact debt covenants. Jim, you said you didn't think it made any difference to the EBITDA calculation, but does that make any distinction between whether the gains are realized or unrealized? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [59] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What the -- the EBITDA calculation definition basically comes from the debt agreements is that you basically take net income, you add back interest expense, you add back tax expense, you add back consolidated depreciation and amortization, and then you add back any unrealized derivative financial gain instruments, gains or losses, of the subject entity. So the actual -- what is realized is realized. That would be included -- is included in EBITDA. What's unrealized is not. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity - Analyst [60] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, perfect. That's what I would have expected, but it's not what I understood, but that's great. Thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [61] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I may well have misspoke, so your confusion is completely warranted. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity - Analyst [62] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And finally, I believe you gave some grade guidance for Minto for next year during the opening preamble, which I am afraid I missed. Would you be able to run through that again? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [63] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, it is ramping up in the first half of the year, staying over 1%; in the second half of the year would average over 2.5%. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary Lampard, Canaccord Genuity - Analyst [64] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, perfect. All right, thanks very much. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [65] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [66] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for the follow-up here. Just a quick question in terms of the EBITDA and the stripping for next year. So I guess I was a little bit confused by the answer to Sasha's question. So you have been stripping above the life of mine strip ratio right now and I believe are going to be for early next year, so benefiting beyond just that period. So there is going to be a portion of that, I imagine, that would be capitalized next year. Is there any sort of disclosure or color that you can give at this point, because obviously that will -- I guess how we choose to allocate between capitalized and what actually goes through the P&L is going to have an impact on our estimates of EBITDA and I guess the potential for the -- how we calculate the covenants on -- the metrics on the covenants? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gregg Bush, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, COO [67] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think you or Rob would have answered the question that we are stripping above the average next year, but I don't believe it is -- it's not prestripping, because the pushback will be producing more. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [68] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [69] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so there should be (multiple speakers) minimal, then, capitalized stripping through that period, so it will mainly go through the P&L? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jim Slattery, Capstone Mining Corp. - SVP, CFO [70] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Turner, Scotiabank - Analyst [71] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [72] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn it back to Mr. Pylot for closing remarks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Darren Pylot, Capstone Mining Corp. - President, CEO [73] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, everybody, for joining us today and please don't hesitate to contact us with any additional questions you may have. Thank you, Operator. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [74] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect.
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