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My Challenge To “Whistleblower” Andrew Maguire

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Published : May 21st, 2013
3591 words - Reading time : 8 - 14 minutes
( 20 votes, 2.8/5 ) , 20 commentaries
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Readers of my blog have known for quite some time now that I grew increasingly agitated with the charlatans pumping the gold and silver price suppression memes over two years ago and have been quite vocal about it on many occasions.  I want to be clear about this point before I continue.  My beef isn’t with people who buy gold and silver or who feel that a portion of their portfolio should be devoted to gold or silver ownership.  My beef isn’t with people that make well thought out arguments for holding gold and silver either.

My beef is with the many that I have repeatedly called for providing misleading and incorrect information to unsuspecting investors looking for information on the relative merits of owning these metals. Their influence on spreading incorrect, fear-ridden, greed-driven and flat out WRONG information has spread so far that you would be hard pressed to run a Google search on the topic of gold and silver ownership without being met with page after page of conspiracy theories, most of which are just cut and pasted from one site that usually starts the story while the others fall in line and are more than happy to propagate whatever the story of the day might be.

I have often called the usual suspects out on my blog to, not surprisingly,  be met with dozens of hate e-mails and venomous comments.  Funny thing though, not once when I question these guys about their data or information does anyone bother to correct me.  Instead they simply regurgitate the meme and continue to propagate the myth.  The logic in this circle has always been if you repeat something enough, people will accept it as truth but the fact it is copied, pasted and shared among the gold and silver bug community doesn’t make it true.

One of my targets has been alleged “whistleblower” Andrew Maguire.  Anyone who has been following the precious metals over the last 3 years knows who he is by now.  For that haven’t heard about him, he’s the guy who was the alleged “whistleblower” that the folks over at GATA (Gold Anti Trust Action Committee) trumpeted out as their ace in the hole.  He was supposed to blow the entire lid off the alleged scam behind the precious metals price suppression.

An active contributor to the comments section of my own blog, and a blogger himself, Bullion Baron from the blog space www.bullionbaron.com  wrote a piece about Andrew Maguire recently questioning the facts behind Maguire’s most recent allegations that Maguire made on King World News.  I won’t get into it here but that piece worth reading discusses the inconsistencies in Maguire’s information that he often spews at King World News in response to Eric King’s leading questions. (Bullion Baron’s piece can be read here).

I’ve questioned Maguire’s “off” statements in the past before as well.  In fact, I’ve often called him a charlatan who is living off his ego after he was appointed “whistleblower” despite the fact that the US Department of Justice called his evidence unreliable when they dismissed any price fixing claims against JP Morgan and HSBC

The courts did not name the whistleblower by name but made the following findings. It can be inferred that given that Maguire has been the only alleged whistleblower to have actually come forward, and given the court’s summation of the material that this individual was indeed Maguire. Why? Because the evidence summarized in the ruling is what Maguire indicated had taken place. In other words, what was presented at the hearing was pretty much what Maguire claimed had been going on when he decided to come out as “the whistleblower”. I mean let’s be real and use common sense. He’s the only alleged whistleblower to have come out with the allegations summarized in the court’s decision reads in part; (Emphasis is mine)

3. Allegations of Additional Uneconomic Trades

In addition to the manipulative trades made on June 26, 2007 and on August 14-15, 2008,the Complaint alleges that JPMorgan used its dominant COMEX short position to bring about trades that were “inconsistent with trying to obtain the best sales price execution, but consistent with trying to move prices down by aggressively selling in a compressed period to receive less on the sales transactions.” (Id. ¶ 121; see also id. ¶¶ 5-6, 96-109.) In support of this allegation, the Complaint discusses instances of unexpected “heavy selling” which occurred between April 2009 and August 2010. (Id. ¶¶ 121-23.) These instances were allegedly brought to the attention of the CFTC Commissioner by an unidentified “market professional . . . registered with the National Futures Association,” who was “a long time participant in the COMEX silver futures markets.” (Id. ¶ 122.) An unnamed “whistleblower”5 also allegedly contacted the CFTC on February 3, 2010 to report that JPMorgan would be making an unidentified “signal . . . indicating its intent to depress COMEX silver futures and options contracts two days later.” (Id. ¶ 125.) On February 5, 2010, this whistleblower contacted the CFTC “to confirm that the silver manipulation was a great success and [had] played out EXACTLY as predicted.” (Id. ¶ 126.)

Footnote: 5 It is unclear from the Complaint if the unnamed “market professional” registered with the National Futures Association is the unnamed “whistleblower.”

Moreover, the statements made by the unidentified “market professional,” (Compl. ¶¶ 121-23), by the unnamed “whistleblower,” (id. ¶¶ 125-26), and by the “bragging” JPMorgan traders, (id. ¶ 176), are not sufficiently factual to show that JPMorgan was the proximate cause of the price fluctuations during the Class Period. The unidentified market professional, for example, is alleged to have brought a series of trades to the attention of the CFTC, but the market professional is not alleged to have named JPMorgan as a party to these trades. (See id.¶ 122.) Indeed every one of the market professional’s statements are made in the passive voice alleging that, “there was heavy selling of silver and gold;”“[t]here were large sellers who came into both the gold and silver markets to drive the prices down;” and so on. (Id.)

By comparison, the unnamed whistleblower who contacted the CFTC in November 2009 does specifically name JPMorgan, but only to assert conclusory and speculative allegations that JPMorgan and its co-conspirators “manipulate[d] and suppress[ed] the price of COMEX silver futures and options contracts.” (Id. ¶ 123; see also id. ¶¶ 124-127.) The Complaint alleges no other information about this whistleblower or about the details of the manipulation that the whistleblower is purported to have observed. Indeed, the whistleblower’s statement is itself speculative as to JPMorgan’s role in the causation: “[h]ow would th[e price fluctuations] be possible if the silver market was not in the control of [JPMorgan and its co-conspirators] . . . . ?”(Id. ¶ 127 (alterations made in Complaint).)

For the reasons discussed supra, the statements by the “bragging” JPMorgan traders are also insufficient to support the allegation that JPMorgan caused artificial prices in the COMEX silver futures market. (See Op. & Order Section V.A.3(b).) The Complaint alleges no information about the date or the language of the remarks deemed to be “bragging;” the identity of the traders who made these remarks; which of the many trades that took place over the two and-a-half year Class Period were the subject of the traders’ bragging; and no information about whether the traders were acting at the instigation of JPMorgan to move silver prices on the market. Cf. Harris, 572 F.3d at 72 (stating that “legal conclusions, and threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements” are not entitled to presumption of truth).

You can see that even the courts found the “whistleblower” and his evidence to be unreliable.  I am inferring that the whistleblower referred to is indeed Maguire. In a nutshell, thie so-called whistleblower couldn’t name the traders, couldn’t attach them to JPMorgan and couldn’t verify their claims. Read the paragraph’s above .. I think the message about the validity of the inside scoops can be ascertained.

Long before this decision however, I wrote a piece questioning exactly who this guy (Maguire) was and why it was so difficult for him to come clean about his past.  That blog piece was picked up by other blogs and websites via link sharing but in combing through the many comments to my own piece and on the websites that decided to pick it up, NOT ONE individual was able to provide any answers to my questions.  I also wrote another piece titled Silver Whistleblower Goes Tout. That piece also got a ton of comments but again, nobody was able to steer me to a legitimate curriculum vitae that actually proves who this guy is or whether his claims of being who he is are actually true.

Given the amount of faith that the gold and silver perma-bulls have placed in Maguire’s commentary, we need to keep pressing for his real background. If he is given a platform to speak on behalf of the few who are privy to the the price-fixing community then I think it’s fair that he comes clean, especially since silver is down over 50% from the highs and from when he emerged on the scene claiming that forthcoming events would force the price of gold and silver to explode. Many people bought based on these outrageous claims. Many unfortunate people are left holding the bag.

A satirical post about Andrew Maguire being a Federal Reserve Plant sought  to turn the table on Maguire, showing through satire how easy it is to label someone a ‘bankster shill’.  Quite easily one can make the argument, as that piece did,  that we can come to the same conclusion about Maguire that he comes to about the bullion banks.  However my concern runs deeper than that.

As I discussed in my post about Maguire turning trading tout,  I wrote that Andrew Maguire turned shill when he decided to run a trading service touting his trades for sale. You will also start to notice that this service is also being touted now in many of Maguire’s interviews at King World News, enticing signups of course. (One of the arguments I’ve had about the perma-bulls is that the ALL seem to have something to sell you). Don’t believe me? Read the big promo add about how much money he’s made for his clients in his latest interview with Eric King at King World News HERE. Those are some returns and given the climate of the metals market of late, he has had to be telling his client’s to go short while at the same time promoting the coming rise in metals prices to the readers of that site (just like every other guest of Eric King by the way).

The fact that Andrew Maguire's "trading service" is openly promoted now in all his interviews and the fact that he has apparently ramped up his attack on the bullion banks with incorrect information as highlighted by Bullion Barron, deserves to be written about if for no other reason than to protect the unsuspecting public who has already been duped buy this guy’s false and misleading information. 

The reality is .. How can someone be labeled a whistleblower if we don’t actually know who he worked for, when he worked there and what actual inside information he was privy to?  Let me put it to you this way.  If I’m a day trader working from my home and I happen to go out for a coffee at a bar where big bank traders hang out and overhear them talking about how they took a penny stock to $20.00 from $1.00 based on nothing and then shorted the stock at the top into retail momentum I might get a chuckle. If I was caught into that momentum trade and heard that these SOB’s just conned me, I would be pissed. But, would that make me a whistleblower if I started to speak about it?  No. It makes me a party to hearsay. There is a big difference.

Now, if Maguire got caught up in buying all the rubbish out there from GATA and the other dozen or so that propagate their memes then happen to take a beating on a long silver trade after a market correction I might be tempted to blow the whistle on what I heard in a bar when two bullion traders were celebrating a big win on a short trade.  Could this actually be what Maguire’s story really is?  Is he just a pissed-off trader who took a huge loss only to come to GATA with information that consisted of second hand information that he overheard in a bar?   A true whistle-blower is someone who took part in the conspiracy and then decided to come clean. That’s the difference and that is something that Andrew Maguire did not do.

Here's a guy who is heralded as being an independent bullion trader of over 30 years having worked for the infamous Goldman Sachs!  Here’s his limited bio from his trading service website.

Meet the expert
Andrew Maguire – Precious Metals
Andrew is an accomplished veteran of the markets. He has 30 years trading experience, both as an institutional and independent trader, the last 19 years of which have been as a metals specialist. Andrew is the driving force behind the MetalsTrades services for Coghlan Capital.

YET...... Nobody can verify this guy's actual background AND, more importantly based on my own investigations, probably doesn’t even hold a licence to provide financial advice. He is certainly no licenced broker as evidenced by the myriad of disclaimers attached to his trading service. I mean, anyone who actually reads the disclaimer can draw this inference on their own.

I apologize for printing the entire disclaimer but I do so to emphasize my point:

Risk Disclaimer: (all emphasis is mine)
"Coghlan Capital is not a registered investment advisor or advisory service.
It does not tell or suggest which securities or currencies should be bought or sold. The analysts and employees or affiliates of Coghlan Capital may hold positions in the stocks, currencies or industries discussed here. There is a very high degree of risk involved in trading stocks, futures and forex. Coghlan Capital assumes no responsibility or liability for any trading or investment results. Facts, statement and charts posted to the company website (www.coghlancapital.com) may unintentionally include inaccuracies. All content posted is for educational purposes ONLY and independent advice should be sought from a professional to confirm validity and accuracy of any claim made. Such set-ups are not solicitations of any order to buy or sell.

Rather, you should use the Information only as a starting point for doing additional independent research in order to allow you to form your own opinion regarding trading decisions. You should ask the firm with which you deal about the terms and conditions of the specific futures or options which you are trading and associated obligations (e.g., the circumstances under which you may become obligated to make or take delivery of the underlying interest of a futures contract and, in respect of options, expiration dates and restrictions on the time for exercise). Under certain circumstances the specifications of outstanding contracts (including the exercise price of an option) may be modified by the exchange or clearing house to reflect changes in the underlying interest. You should always check with your licensed financial advisor and tax advisor to determine the suitability of any investment.

No assumption should be made in relation to the performance or accuracy of the methods shown. No claims are made as to the success or profitability of any posts made within the company website.

DayTrades

The MetalsTrades and DayTrades services provide insight as to trades that traders affiliated with Coghlan Capital may be taking. These trades are published for educational purposes only and should NOT be taken as instructions to buy or sell any commodity, option or currency. THESE SERVICES ARE INSTRUCTIONAL ONLY AND DESIGNED TO FAMILIARIZE MEMBERS WITH HOW AND WHEN TRADES ARE TAKEN BY A PROFESSIONAL TRADER.

All Trading involves risk. Leveraged trading has large potential rewards, but also large potential risk. Be aware and accept this risk before trading. Never trade with money you cannot afford to lose. All forecasting is based on statistics derived from past performance of any trading methodology is no guarantee of future results. No “Safe” trading system has ever been divided and no one can guarantee profits or freedom from loss.

Before you make any investment or trading decisions, you should carefully inform yourself about the opportunities and risk. Apart from the financial aspects, this might also include the fiscal and legal ones. Please particularly note that the past performance of a trading system or trading strategy is not indicative of future results. See also CFTC RULE 4.41

U.S. Government Required Disclaimer – Commodity Futures Trading Commission Futures and Options trading has large potential rewards, but also large potential risk. You must be aware of the risks and be willing to accept them in order to invest in the futures and options markets. Don’t trade with money you can’t afford to lose. This is neither a solicitation nor an offer to Buy/Sell futures or options. No representation is being made that any account will or is likely to achieve profits or losses similar to those discussed on this web site. The past performance of any trading system or methodology is not necessarily indicative of future results.

HYPOTHETICAL OR SIMULATED PERFORMANCE RESULTS HAVE CERTAIN LIMITATIONS. UNLIKE AN ACTUAL PERFORMANCE RECORD, SIMULATED RESULTS DO NOT REPRESENT ACTUAL TRADING. ALSO, SINCE THE TRADES HAVE NOT BEEN EXECUTED, THE RESULTS MAY HAVE UNDER-OR-OVER COMPENSATED FOR THE IMPACT, IF ANY, OF CERTAIN MARKET FACTORS, SUCH AS LACK OF LIQUIDITY. SIMULATED TRADING PROGRAMS IN GENERAL ARE ALSO SUBJECT TO THE FACT THAT THEY ARE DESIGNED WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT. NO REPRESENTATION IS BEING MADE THAT ANY ACCOUNT WILL OR IS LIKELY TO ACHIEVE PROFIT OR LOSSES SIMILAR TO THOSE SHOWN.

YET, this guy is touted as a professional trader of over 30 years and promotes a "trading service" where he provides what appear to be, by virtue of the disclaimer “hypothetical trades” with “hypothetical” results. You can see how I come to the reasonable conclusion that he doesn't even have a licence that allows him to legally provide that financial advice ... yet HE CHARGES A FEE for pretend trades and treats it like a video game to skirt the law. It really makes my blood boil.

Again, I apologize for continuing to beat a dead horse here but this stuff is just so blatant and wreaks of lies and deception that I must speak out to protect the little guy who has taken a huge beating in the gold and silver market because they bought into the deceptive practices touted by Maguire and those like him.  It disturbs me to no end that this guy gets away with this stuff yet nobody other than Jeff Christianson (who actually worked for Goldman Sachs and whose video appears in my post linked above) has had the balls to call him out on it.

This isn’t about where the price of silver or gold for that matter is headed. It has nothing to do with fundamentals or technical analysis.  This is about trying to get answers for the people that have held their physical metal during a vicious correction because of the information that Maguire and guys like him tout. It’s for the guy who bought silver at $45.00 – $50.00 an ounce or gold at over $1900 an ounce and is sitting on massive losses because they believed what was told to them by the likes of Andrew Maguire and perpetuated by those that propagate his conspiracy theories. 

Therefore I issue this challenge to Andrew Maguire.. .POST PROOF OF YOUR BACKGROUND, a Curriculum Vitae with contactable referencesVerify your background is as claimed and prove you are who GATA have made you out to be and I will  promise to never write another word about you again.  In fact, I will even provide you with a free banner advertisement spot on my blog for your “trading service” for a full year.

If Andrew Maguire wants to keep his title of whistleblower despite the fact that his evidence has already been deemed unreliable by the courts, then he should have no problem accepting this challenge. All he has to do is PROVE that he really had INSIDER direct knowledge of price fixing schemes and isn’t just a jealous or disgruntled day trader who overheard a couple of real bullion bank traders boast about a massive winning trade in the local pub, one that he was probably on the other side of. 

My challenge can’t be clearer. Tell the world exactly how you are an insider that blew the whistle off the so-called price-suppression schemes and keep in mind that the courts already dismissed your evidence because you didn’t name traders, couldn’t tie them to the bullion bank you alleged they were from and you couldn’t even recall WHEN you heard them bragging.

Tell the people what your real connection is to the bullion banks you claim to know so much about.  Otherwise, please stop please stop misleading investors and individuals by continuing to allow yourself to be labelled a whistleblower because based on what we know and what the courts have already ruled, nothing can be further from the truth when it comes to that ‘title’. 


Companies Mentionned : Bullion | Metals X | Signal |
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Yeah, you are right, I'm wrong, it's $103K not $98K! Maguire claims to have made $103,305 if you traded one contract in and out for the year. So, since you can prove this is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE you should drop him a note at Coghlan Capital insist  Read more
ccmhi - 5/25/2013 at 9:10 AM GMT
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It sounds to me like Danny Boy has performance envy! Lets make it short and sweet. Would have made more money following your paid advice or Maguire's?
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Cannot believe you actually received an up arrow for your comment.

The answer to your less than thoughtful question is super obvious. If you owned 3 ounces of gold and sold them at the time double D advised, you could buy back those same 3 ounces today PLUS 1 more with the proceeds. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the numbers are what the numbers are. No, let me take that back. i am not sorry.

If you find it necessary to continue to attack double D, then by all means, do so. But for gawd's sake man, use a modicum of intelligence to do so.
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Do you have reading comprehension problems? I asked about advice which both Dantrose and McGuire offer through their trading services. McGuire claims an impressive return of $98K profit per gold future contract traded using his paid trading service. Dantrose keeps harping about the fact that he once called a top, that's all I hear from him. If I paid Danrose to give me advice, what YTD return would I have following his trading advice? Now do you comprehend it, Einstein?
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Not only do i well understand what i read, i can also do math.

Let us examine Maguire's purported claim as explained by you. Fact #1: A gold futures contract is for 100 troy ounces. Fact #2: To have made money, Maguire would have had to go short, given that gold has declined some $310 YTD. Fact #3: $310x100=$31,000, not $98,000. Ergo, either Maguire is a bald faced liar or you have not understood what you have read, or both.

Actually, there may be a fourth explanation. As i pay no attention whatsoever to Maguire, i really do not know if he actually made such a claim or not. Given how simple the math is to do, it is hard to imagine that he made such a claim. To have done so, he would have had to believe that the world is composed of nothing but lazy imbeciles. So then, did he really make the claim you state he did, or did you just make it up?

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Unfortunately, I think this is a little too complex for you, but I'll try.

Maguire offers a trading service, as in trading in and out, of PM futures. He claims that a person who followed his trading advice, as in multiple long and short trades, from Jan. 1 of this year has made $98K trading one contract which only requires about $7K initial margin requirement up front. This simple (for most people) performance metric is scalable based upon how many contracts you would prefer to trade.

I would like to hear from "Double D" what his trading advice would have made me had I followed it. I've heard enough bluster from DD about CVs, smashing memes and debunking conspiracy theories already. Cut the crap, what are the performance numbers DD claims? That's all I need to know!






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How very sad. You would seem to be a most confused true believer.

Let us strip away all the extraneous matter littering your position and examine the truth of the claim that YTD profits per gold contract have been $98K. The multiple trades in and out part has nothing whatsoever to do with how any particular contract performed. The cost of the contract is completely immaterial to the question under examination, so we can ignore that as well. That it is scalable is also quite beside the point. We are looking at how 1 contract performed, no more, no less. (BTW, you have no idea what the term "performance metric" means, for if you did, you would know that you have misapplied it.)

Now, down to reality. When you exit a trade, that is it. It is over and done with. Either you have made a profit, broken even, or you have taken a loss. Should you wish to get back into the market after exiting a trade, we would then be looking at a brand new contract. How it performs has nothing to do with how the one just exited performed. As there are no more than 100 troy ounces in a contract and as gold has neither gone up nor down $980 since the year has begun, it is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for the claim to be true. The maximum possible profit per contract would be in the neighbourhood of $37,000 had it been purchased at the start of the year and sold at the low of April 15th. The numbers do not lie. As for Maguire, if you have accurately described his claim, the same cannot be said. Myself, i believe that you have unintentionally misrepresented his claim. i mean, he could not be so stupid as to claim something that a 7 year old, armed with a pocket calculator, could so very easily demonstrate to be false.

As for double D, if memory serves, he said that he got out of the market. Whether his advice was good or bad is completely beside the point of his post. Why you would need to know that in order to determine if Maguire is who he says is a mystery to me that i would prefer you not attempt to clarify, for i really do not care.

This, by the way, will be my final word on the subject, so please feel free to disparage my reading comprehension skills, my ability to deal with complexity or anything else you care to throw my way. It may bring you some small measure of satisfaction to do so, but it will not change the fact that the numbers are what the numbers are. There is just no way to get around them.


“One seldom discovers a true believer that is worth knowing.”--H.L. Mencken
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Yeah, you are right, I'm wrong, it's $103K not $98K! Maguire claims to have made $103,305 if you traded one contract in and out for the year. So, since you can prove this is MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE you should drop him a note at Coghlan Capital insisting he take down his false claims from their site. Here's a link to his trades so you can review his math.... http://www.coghlancapital.com/metalstrades/past_performance

If he responds to you, just be on guard. He just may be a sock puppet created to spread internet memes about nonexistent PM market manipulation.
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ccmhi ...

I didn't want to get into this on this forum but why not .....

I gave everyone the heads up in March that if we broke key levels, we were going WAY DOWN ....
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/03/these-next-few-days-could-see.html#more

I then followed it up in April
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/04/bigger-picture-levels-in-gold-and-silver.html

On April 11th with silver near 29 an ounce and gold near $1600 I told investors that things looked bad and and if $26.15 was taken out in Silver, it would get real ugly.
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/04/searching-for-clues-on-gold-and-silver.html

In fact, on April 4th I advised that the charts looked bad and that people might be better off in the dollar.

http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/04/gold-silver-king-dollar.html

As far back as October 2012 I advised readers the silver chart was taking on an ominous pattern and that we "could" see a move to $16.00 ... silver was over $30.00 at the time
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2012/10/on-further-inspection-troubling-pattern.html

I warned in April of this year not to be fooled with the bounce
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/04/dont-be-fooled-by-bounce.html

Earlier in February of this year I predicted we could see $18.00 in silver
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/02/reviewing-my-older-take-on-silver.html

In November of 2012 I warned of a sell trigger in silver when it was over $30.00
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2012/11/updating-positionsnew-bear-pennant.html

In September of 2012 I warned caution for anyone wanting to long silver or gold
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2012/09/caution-required-when-looking-at-gold.html

In March of 2012 I warned that silver was going to go sub $30.00
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2012/03/silver-should-now-work-towards-below.html

We can go on and on but perhaps my most important post was in December of 2011 when I point blank told investors that it might be time to acknowledge the gold bull market was over. At the time, I said we could be on the cusp of a move that would take us sub $1300 in gold
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2011/12/it-might-be-time-to-acknowledge-that.html

Finally way back in August of 2011 I warned of the major parabolic top in gold that was forming as it approached all time highs.
http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2011/08/time-to-take-closer-look-at-gold.html

I sold all my phyiscal in the $40's and my gold near the highs .... it's all on my blog for all to see. I have been bearish since 2011 on both metals and have remained bearish.

So, have I satisfied your request? Go to my blog, click on the gold and silver tabs under the labels and read all my posts since 2011 for yourself.

The best part is ... I NEVER CHARGED A CENT and NEVER RELIED ON ANY DRAWN OUT CONSPIRACY THEORY.

I didn't want to come on here and say I told you so but you asked and I have complied. I warned that $18.50 silver was in the cards as was sub 1300 gold .... over a year and a half ago and was criticized relentlesly. So ... how did I do?

You believe the myths and the conspiracy memes ... I'll believe the charts and the fact. You have witnessed the end of a bull market and for most investors who have never lived in a bear market in the metals, welcome to it. This is what it looks like.

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Interesting article and valid points. Dan's issue as I see it is pretty clear. Dan's not asking for an audit of Maguire, he's asking for proof of who he is given that Maguire carries with him a title given to him by those in the gold and silver army and he continues to graciously comply with that title despite the points raised by Dan above. More disturbingly, Maguire is PROFITING from that un-earned distinction even in the face of the courts politely laughing at his evidence. Fair challenge. If this guy said he was a true insider and has used that distinction to profit, then I see no problem with having him fess-up and taking on Dan’s challenge. Then again, it probably won't mean anything to the loyal army of followers he already has because (as I see it) die-hard precious metals fans won't change their views once entrenched anyways. Another case where the messenger, in this particular case, Dan, is being shot for making a valid point that goes against the grain of the staunch precious metals community. Seems those that have a real issue with this request are more afraid of what they might find out about their anointed "hero". Didn't he miraculously survive a hit and run the day after his initial testimony or was this just more drama added to the mix by GATA to underscore what a thorn in the side Maguire was for blowing the whistle? Seems nobody has cared to carry out any additional "hits" since so what Maguire has to say isn't being taken seriously by anyone anymore.

Frank
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You all sound like a bunch of old women, picking each other apart. Stick to the right's and the opinions of others to dislike what you say, as much as you dislike what they say. keep to the facts and the Metals future or past. Thank you.
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IT APPEARS the article is lacking in its entirety. the part about the courts dismissing Maguire's evidence are missing.

Feel free to read it in whole here: http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/05/my-challenge-to-whistleblower-andrew.html
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You are obviously another punk shill.
One can only be a mental defective or a shill, if they can not comprehend the tremendous body of evidence that GATA and others have provided demonstrating conclusively the manipulation taking place in gold and silver.
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Read the article and the court decision ... whose the shill? Have a good day.
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Is it possible that Dontrose is even more of an idiot than he projected himself as previously? He challenges an individual to put into the pubic realm all of this persons details so that he can make a target of himself? Yes a target Dan. What do you think the life expectancy would be for the person who publicly opens the doors to criminal actions of the likes we're talking about here? Your challenge is meaningless and you knew it before you issued it.

Dan, at this point your coming across as nothing more than a yapping little mutt. I challenge you to come back here with evidence to prove that all of the smack downs to PM's, where the price literally fell off a cliff on a number of occasions not just a few weeks back, were brought on by legitimate transactions. Please also identify the major players that could care less about what they did to the price when they dumped enough metal to sink a large ship. Show us how loosing millions because someone or a select few had to get rid of 400 tons of the yellow stuff benefited these people or organizations.

He's another question, why do you bother to even write on PM's? You obviously don't give two hoots about the stuff. Go somewhere else where what you know might actually be of interest to others.
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"He challenges an individual to put into the pubic realm all of this persons details so that he can make a target of himself"

I'm not asking for trading accounts. Read the article. All I ask is a for a curriculum vitae .. A Résumé. This is tyoical of avoiding the point and question asked. If you read my piece you would note that his evidence was already deemed flawed by the courts. He claims to be an insider .. like I said, post the résumé and let him prove he is who he is.

So typical of someone who fails to see the forest between the trees. Read ,y blog more often ... you would have sold your silver at $40.00 and never looked back. So .. you want to call me a mutt that's fine. I desire to stick to the facts and the facts behind this "whistleblower" are sketchy at best.

I do give two hoots about the stuff .. and about protecting many an investor who has lost a fortune beliveing the hype from these charlatans who never once advised anyone to lighten their positions. It's all a bankster conspiracy when the metals go down but all find and dandy when they rise. I hate to burt your bubble but the bubble popped ... I wrote that in 2011 .... whose right? Me or the one's continuing to cry foul to appease the little guy who fails to do a little digging.
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I think it is fair enough of Dontrose to have concerns/bee in his bonnet about Maguire's background. Let's see his qualifications.
Let's also see the last 4 years of Dontrose's personal trading account in both paper and physical for gold and silver.
Put up or shut up!

That said..I do not believe in conspiracy theories either unless there is evidence,in which case they would not be theories.
A bit like the LIBOR scandal. Who would have thought?
Surely Gold and Silver price suppression and market manipulation could not be happening right under the regulators noses.
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I'm not asking for 4 years of Maguire's financial records. I'm not asking for PERSONAL data. I'm asking for a résumé from an individual who was given the mantra of whistleblower and whose evidence was deemed weak by the courts becuase he couldn't provide any facts to back up his claims. You do know that the extent of his inside information was hearing a couple traders bragging about making money over beers right?

My trades are on my blog for free for anyone to see. I told people to sell their metals in December of 2011. Funny what a little reading will do to ease YOUR supsicions about me.

Try to to grasp it the point of my article. It's not about wanting to know what he makes trading. It's about backing up his claims of being an insider.

24hgold didn't post my entire article ... you can read it here where I actually quote the court's decision about the weakness and unreliability of his evidence.

http://thefundamentalview.blogspot.ca/2013/05/my-challenge-to-whistleblower-andrew.html
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Yes thanks for that.
I have no suspicions about you and I assure you that I read well. ( I did say lets see his qualifications)
Good on you for advising people to sell their metals in Dec 2011.
Based on your Fundamental View that all things are just swimming along nicely in the world of finance and economics, and that Bernanke is a genius who knows what he is doing, and of course, that politically the situation the world over is more stable now that it has ever been, you see no reason to buy Metals and in fact you sold all yours (if any) in Dec 2011 and you have bought none since.
You hold ZERO METALS
You give advice on much secure assets like leveraged paper markets.
" try to grasp the point of that"
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Yes you did say let's see his qualifications. But what this have to do with seeing my financial records for the last 4 years. Remember, I'M NOT THE ONE who gets on the soap box and cries "manipulation", I'm not the one who was given any mantra of whistleblower and I'm not the one charging for a trading service to which the disclaimer attached to it reads more like a video game than it does a bona-fide financial service.

I don't care for Maguire's personal records. I care for his curriculum vitae. He has led many people to believe that he is someone privy to information. GATA has taken this information and has annointed him their saviour and King World News gives him far to much air time to discuss his "allegations", most of which are unfounded.

You wrote:
"Based on your Fundamental View that all things are just swimming along nicely in the world of finance and economics, and that Bernanke is a genius who knows what he is doing, and of course, that politically the situation the world over is more stable now that it has ever been, you see no reason to buy Metals and in fact you sold all yours (if any) in Dec 2011 and you have bought none since. You hold ZERO METALS
You give advice on much secure assets like leveraged paper markets. " try to grasp the point of that" "

I don't want to be rude so I'll hold back what I'm really thinking but you do exemplify the entire metal-head community in a nut-shell. You spin information and make unfounded assumptions with no evidence to back them up. I never once said in my blog that all things are swimming along nicely in the owrld of finance and I never said that Bernanke is a genius, nor did I ever say that the world is more stable than it has ever been. EVER. In fact, a little reading of my blog will reveal that I have been highly critical of Bernanke's policies.

You can go to my blog and read my 2011 post wherein I asked people to strongly consider the fact that the bull market in the metals was over. Instead of simply listening to the charlatans who all have something to sell you, everything would be just fine and that every dip should be bought. I clearly stated on my blog that I sold my metals on the bounce after the crash. I advised people to sell gold at the 2011 top on my blog. These posts are all on my blog for everyone to see, so quite frankly I DO GRASP THE POINT OF THAT thank you very much.

Try not to get caught up in the metals. My post regarding Maguire was not meant to be a recommendation to buy or sell anything and for the record, I don't own paper silver or gold. I trade them like the commidities they are and not the "currency" that the charlatans make them out to be. Tell me what you get when you sell your silver or gold? FIAT. You know that much right? So, you are using your paper currency to buy metals so that you can sell for more paper currency at a later date. Don't you see the irony and contradiction of the overall meme in that?

My post on Maguire was about his false claims, not about where I think the price of silver or gold should be. Try to get past all your unfounded claims of manipulation and try not to put words in my mouth. Instead, start to question all of these people who said every correction was just a little bump in the road because, in case you haven't noticed, silver has retraced over 50% of it's price since the highs in 2011. THAT is what happens when a bubble bursts. That is what I've been warning readers about. So, as cocky as this may come across, I do have the right to brag about making the right decisions and for calling these guys out for the charlatans that they are.

Like I said, there is a considerable portion of my blog post that is not in the above article that is on my original blog post and deals with the core of my argument on this point. That is, MAGUIRE'S statements were found by the court to lack substance. Let me quote that section of my post that was left out in the above post.... it is me QUOTING the court's decision dismissing the allegations of price fixing. It reads...

"Moreover, the statements made by the unidentified “market professional,” (Compl. ¶¶ 121-23), by the unnamed “whistleblower,” (id. ¶¶ 125-26), and by the “bragging” JPMorgan traders, (id. ¶ 176), are not sufficiently factual to show that JPMorgan was the proximate cause of the price fluctuations during the Class Period. The unidentified market professional, for example, is alleged to have brought a series of trades to the attention of the CFTC, but the market professional is not alleged to have named JPMorgan as a party to these trades. (See id.¶ 122.) Indeed every one of the market professional’s statements are made in the passive voice alleging that, “there was heavy selling of silver and gold;”“[t]here were large sellers who came into both the gold and silver markets to drive the prices down;” and so on. (Id.)

By comparison, the unnamed whistleblower who contacted the CFTC in November 2009 does specifically name JPMorgan, but only to assert conclusory and speculative allegations that JPMorgan and its co-conspirators “manipulate[d] and suppress[ed] the price of COMEX silver futures and options contracts.” (Id. ¶ 123; see also id. ¶¶ 124-127.) The Complaint alleges no other information about this whistleblower or about the details of the manipulation that the whistleblower is purported to have observed. Indeed, the whistleblower’s statement is itself speculative as to JPMorgan’s role in the causation: “[h]ow would th[e price fluctuations] be possible if the silver market was not in the control of [JPMorgan and its co-conspirators] . . . . ?”(Id. ¶ 127 (alterations made in Complaint).)

For the reasons discussed supra, the statements by the “bragging” JPMorgan traders are also insufficient to support the allegation that JPMorgan caused artificial prices in the COMEX silver futures market. (See Op. & Order Section V.A.3(b).) The Complaint alleges no information about the date or the language of the remarks deemed to be “bragging;” the identity of the traders who made these remarks; which of the many trades that took place over the two and-a-half year Class Period were the subject of the traders’ bragging; and no information about whether the traders were acting at the instigation of JPMorgan to move silver prices on the market. Cf. Harris, 572 F.3d at 72 (stating that “legal conclusions, and threadbare recitals of the elements of a cause of action, supported by mere conclusory statements” are not entitled to presumption of truth).

So as you can see, everything Maguire told the courts and everything he's been touted as saying was deemed to be "speculative".

So, please, do me a favor. Don't put words in my mouth and don't try to spin the real point of this post. THE REALITY IS, that if investors are going to be lead to believe Maguire's allegations are true as they still do, despite the court's findings, then HE NEEDS TO COME CLEAN about his real work history that places him in the category of a true whistleblower.

I could care less about his financial records etc. I care about what gives him the right or knowledge to make the claims he does. I don't need to fess up with anything because I WASN'T the one telling people to hold their metal and I wasn't the one making outrageous price claims or fictional price fixing schemes. His analysis of data has been torn to shreds by other blogs showing he barely has a clue about what he speaks about.

So, I still don't think you grasp the point of my post. Instead you have done what most silver perma-bulls do .. deflect the attention away from the point by attacking anyone who tries to question the messenger. That is both irresponsible and immature and shows you don't have the ability to debate this issue.

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WOW you must have a lot of time to waste with that almost irrelevant post. You Sir cannot read or at least you skipped the bit about me not believing in conspiracies. In fact several times I have said that Butler was wasting his time.
I could not give a tinkers cuss about Maguire ,or anyone else on KWN proffering their opinions. They are just opinions just like mine.
I guess you missed my tongue in cheek comments on Bernanke and fundamentals.
I am not a perma bull on silver and in fact I sold Half the night Bin Laden was killed. I am not caught up in metals.
The other half was bought at far less than what it is today and i will deploy the profits from the first half when I deem it appropriate.
If you like I will let you know.

Oh...I remember when I sold my Silver at $50..I got FIAT...PROFITS, that is !

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